Please explain all your email groups/lists, etc.
We have 3 forums and one email list, in order to reach all the members (only) at the same time. We have several moderated forum message lists that you can subscribe too.
Join Our Forum – If you are seriously interested in moving to this area. We have a lot to offer to help you make the best, well-informed decision. This is the new forum to post your questions and meet others.
Eco Venus Country Club – This forum is for those interests in the Eco Venus Country Club.
UEVN – Announcements – This is a list for an announcement only. This is a moderated list, approx. 1-2 message per month. As Press here to view archived messages To subscribe, send an email this link.
UEVN – Discussion – is for those interested in visiting and joining us or that have visited, here is where you can ask question from us and from other who have visited or are in the process of doing so. Press here to view archived messages. To subscribe, send an email this link.
UEVN – Introductions – is for those interested in sending us an introduction letter only; once you send your introduction letter you will have access to all the other introductions and bio’s. To subscribe, send an email this link.
Investing in Ecuador – If moving to Ecuador and wondering how to earn a living via investing in a business, this is the forum to join. It is a discussion forum for you to discuss investment opportunities in Ecuador with other investors. The forum is for you to meet other investors whom you may decide to team up with to invest in Ecuador business opportunities. This is an open forum to discuss pros and cons of a potential investment, including the pros and cons of the Ecuador political situation from the investors prospective. We the creators and sponsors of the group will be posting all the business opportunities we presently have, some are as low as a few thousand dollar secure investment others are very high risk very high-earning potential, others are as high as 500 million dollars and even more. Our projects range from small to huge we have something for every investor.
Loja Province Info – The LojaProvinceInfo forum is for general information and discussion of the areas of Vilcabamba, Malacatos, La Toma etc. of the Province of Loja Ecuador. To post information on places of interest to visit such as the Petrified Forest, water falls, restaurants, concerts, fairs, nightlife activities, dating, where to buy organic foods, group purchase, information about schools, government, medical doctors, attorneys, transportation, related web pages links, UFO activities, etc. To plan trips and recreational activities with others; for parents to discuss child education issues and activities. It is NOT for advertising of real estate nor any business activities, though general questions regarding where to relocate will be tolerated and a description of where you live is also acceptable. This forum is NOT to discuss other areas of Ecuador; for this there are other forums, except when planning a group trip from Loja to those areas. Discussion of pros/cons of one area vs. another is also an acceptable discussion subject. This forum is mainly for those who live in these areas or want to move here and want to connect with others. It is encouraged that you place an introduction of yourself and what your hobbies and interest are, be sure to mention where you live. This forum WILL BE moderated.
UVEN – Espanol Site – Este foro es para los que desean crear su propia comunidad intencional basada en los principios y metas de la Federación de Eco Aldeas UEVN.
How long have you been living in Ecuador?
As of 1998.
What is our mission?
The answer to this question is clear when we ask another question: Are we just going to try to make a better life for ourselves, or are we going to do something to help the local people? Are we running away from something or towards something?
The question of running away versus towards something is a personal thing that we can only answer for ourselves. There are elements of both for us. We are motivated by getting out of this stagnant city life of the living dead, getting away from an empty TV culture that has lost all meaningfulness for us. We are happy to get away from the misery that we see coming on the horizon due to environmental carelessness and the global economic crisis that is already well underway..
We are running away from all this and TOWARD a group of people whose company we dearly enjoy, to live in a natural setting where the land and water and sky is unpolluted, so that we can create something together that we will see the rewards from over years and years of our lifetimes. Yes, helping the local people is something we all very much want to do. No, we don't have it all figured out yet -- this is in the making as we speak. The good thing is that these ideas are so young that they're still transformable into whatever we want them to be -- you just have to be willing to take action.
What work, planning, networking can we do on this end before leaving for Ecuador?
Join and start using the e-mail lists and chat for a daily discussion.
How can I get my things there?
We have successfully shipped 20-40’ containers to Ecuador; you can also send 8x8x8 via plane. Note: There are lots!!! Of documents to file first in order to not pay import taxes, all this takes $$ and time. If is advisable to bring as much as you can with you by hand vs. shipping. You may get a one-time import permit for your entire household; there is a limitation of 6 month upon arrival and you must have applied for resident visa. It is advisable that you consult with an attorney ASAP if you are planning to import.
What if I need something overnight?
Federal Express delivers in 2-3 days, DHL, and private curriers. You can get almost anything from anywhere in the world. It will usually cost you import taxes!!! And the fees are 2-3X of national ones.
Do you have a vision for the infrastructure necessary to support a community such as shelter, kitchen, waste disposal, decision-making, ownership, energy resources, etc.?
Yes, also see The Venus Project They have videos and literature that describes in detail some good goals to follow. In addition we have people who have lived in community and have very good knowledge on decision-making processes.
Do you have vehicles and equipment for roadwork, and agriculture?
Yes. We own most tools needed for construction, in fact we have finished construction of a 6500sf concrete dome, 3 large water tanks, 2 large pools for fish, 2 large septic tanks and one wood cabana/hut. We are starting on two more concrete domes for housing in 2004-5. We own a 4x4 truck.
Do you have lists of what you think each person should bring in regards to supplies, equipment, tools, etc. necessary to help build and develop the community?
Yes. Email us for the details.
Do you have detailed information and tips on preparations necessary to be legal to travel and reside in Ecuador? To ship containers? The cost?
Yes. Emails us for the details.
What work, planning, networking can we do on this end before leaving for Ecuador?
Start using the e-mail list for a daily discussion.
What is the weather like there?
It's quite ideal. There are 2 seasons -- rain or no rain. The temperature only varies a few degrees throughout the year... mostly in the seventies, farenheit.
What is the Currency value there?
To give you an idea, you can hire a worker for $10 – $20 USD a day; a full-time maid for less than $300 per month; Taxi ride anywhere in the city of Loja just $1 USD; Taxi ride to Vilcabamba from Loja (45 minutes) $1.50 USD; Airport $5-10 USD in a shared vehicle, $35 private; Private pickup trucks are available in Vilcabamba and Malacatos for $4-8 per trip, to Loja $15-20. (Prices based on June 2010).
How far from nearest basic supplies outlets; market, hardware store, bank and communications? Big city?
45 minutes to the city of Loja; The Airport is an hour and a half. The Ocean is 5-7 hours.
Modes of transportation; horses? 4 wheel drive?
4X4 is preferably, especially if you intend to drive on the gravel roads, however, but a car may be used.
What building materials are available nearby?
Same as any big city, just some delays in getting it.
Water locations, purity, water rights?
Pure water flows through the land, as 2 streams that come down the mountain, unpolluted because no one lives up there where the water comes from, there is no one to contaminate it before it reaches our area. These streams run through the land, to be used for all our needs, irrigation, etc. A few people have drunk from the streams without treating the water and have had no problems, but we use reverse osmosis & UV filters for cooking and drinking. There are also 2 water sources that come from the top of the mountain in hoses and a large irrigation canal that comes’ from 10 km.
Government support or local intervention? What is the Political environment?
We have tremendous support from the local government, from helping us negotiate land to helping with tractors and materials. Political environment is neutral unless and until you pose some sort of a threat. It is friendly to the United States. Now that the country converted to US dollars, things are getting much better.
To what degree are you self-sufficient?
We are 80% self sufficient at this time, and we have plans to be 100% self sufficient, once the land kindly supports us. We have several electric generators with plenty of fuel, plenty of medical supplies for emergency, emergency food storage, several acres of crops, etc.
What do you grow at this time?
Potatoes, parsnips, peanuts, garlic, onions, parsley, pineapples, prickly pears, a few varieties of corn and beans, tomatoes, leeks, cilantro, cumin, thyme, basil, marjoram, carrots, lettuces, beets, lots of coffee, plantains, bananas, apples, grapes, peaches, pears, maracuya, granadilla, figs, soursop / guanabana, sunflowers, avocados, watermelons, cantaloupe and several types of squashes, salt-wort, date palms, custard apple, cherimoya, mamey, genip tree, papayas, babacos, sweet potato, coconuts, plums and many others that grow only in this part of the world; medicinal garden, ornamental plants, orchids and deep jungle project.
All of our water irrigation tanks are finished, full and operating; we have 80% drip and micro aspersion system throughout the property.
What animals do you raise for food?
Chicken, rabbits, pigs, ducks, geeses, pigeons, goats, cows, guinea pigs and 3 fish ponds.
Available temporary accommodations during settling?
We do not have any at the present time, except for sleeping on the floor.
At present what land parcels are available? How many acres in a parcel?
See EcoVenusCountryClub for details.
What is The Venus Project?
The plans for The Venus Project offer society a broader spectrum of choices based on the scientific possibilities inherent in current technology and direct that knowledge toward a new era of peace and sustainability for all. Through the implementation of a resource-based economy, and a multitude of innovative and environmentally friendly technologies directly applied to the social system, The Venus Project proposals will dramatically reduce crime, poverty, hunger, homelessness, and many other pressing problems that are common throughout the world today.
We feel that the Venus project includes and embraces our hard-core ideals and takes them in many steps further out. Venus addresses many other areas that we at UEVN had not had time to even think about. We feel that our ideals and long-term goals are compatible and would like to join teams/efforts to work towards a common goal. The Venus project focuses on enhancing the lives of all people through the best of science and technology and they also have been ready to continue, expand and further out their vision. The Venus Project presents a bold, new direction for humanity that entails nothing less than the total redesign of our culture. We found out that not only can we build a model place for ourselves but also for the rest of humanity. The blueprints have already been worked out, most details have been ironed out and the time to do it has come by bringing us all together for this special event.
There are many people today who are concerned with the serious problems that face our modern society: unemployment, violent crime, replacement of humans by technology, over-population and a decline in the Earth's ecosystems. As you will see, The Venus Project is dedicated to confronting all of these problems by actively engaging in the research, development, and application of workable solutions. Through the use of innovative approaches to social awareness, educational incentives, and the consistent application of the best that science and technology can offer directly to the social system, The Venus Project offers a comprehensive plan for social reclamation in which human beings, technology, and nature will be able to coexist in a long-term, sustainable state of dynamic equilibrium.
If you have any further questions after reading The Venus Project by all means, we strongly encourage you to send an email to Roxanne or Jacque and they will gladly answer and fill in the details.
Also be sure to read THE WORLD PEACE GARDEN PROJECT AND WORKING MODEL FOR SPACESHIP EARTH. These are a series of articles written specifically on Ecuador.
How are we going to earn money over there?
We are sure that by living together and raising much of our own food we can get by on less. We doubt that there will be any jobs available in the nearby city. We have been planting additional crops, irrigating, erecting fences, repairing the road, constructing buildings, raising animals, etc. Earning money maybe the least of our worries in the near future, but we acknowledge that it is still important to have some kind of cash income at this time. Many local residents here are bartering, and that just may be the currency of the future. We feel we are on the cutting edge between two paradigms – this existing one, which is rapidly crumbling, and a more holistic one that is ahead of us. In this regard, we are working on creating the future we wish to live in. We are working very hard on the Global Genius Trust. Our goal is to do a series of projects in the area, and when we accomplish this, we see it as the means of members will be able to earn money and more than adequately sustain their lives.
How are we going to share money and other resources?
We think that most of our belongings will end up being communally shared simply because we are a very small, close-knit family type of group, and you can't very easily let one person go without something they need in that kind of a group. We won't have any luxuries that we can think of, so we can't see there being any haves or have-nots. We think there's a general understanding, though, that we will be free to keep private property/money over and above what is contributed to the group (that is to say, no one's going to seize your bank account or steal your blankie). But there is also the general understanding that we're all in this together and we must share to make it through the ordeal that we must go through in the beginning.
How will we interface with the local people?
We are interfacing with many of them at this time, from workers to government officials, and we been having an exceptionally pleasant experience.
Will we let local people join us?
Yes, in fact there is a group of approx. 10 Ecuadorian that we are communicating with. Most of them are young people who are disgusted with the society they live in and are ready for a change, the only thing holding them back is the fact we do not have an established mean of earning money.
Should we learn Spanish?
Many people speak English, French, German and other languages in the nearby town of Vilcabamba, though we DO recommend that you make the effort of learning some Spanish. Part of the fun of living here is interacting with the local people, many of them will surprise you of their very high level of formal education, for example 60% of the city of Loja population has a minimum of 4-year university degree.
How will the local people view a bunch of foreigners with a lot more resources than they have coming in to live among them. Are we going to arm ourselves against them?
We don't expect this to be a problem because we think the presence of a group of people, a fence, and several dogs will discourage snooping and eliminate the opportunities that encourage theft. As we establish our boundaries, we are reaching out and developing relationships of mutual respect and trust. We hope to make more friendships, to share, to get to know the culture and people, etc. Yes, we will have a few guns for purposes of scaring away wild animals from our livestock, possibly hunting, and absolute-last-resort self-defense. We will have them under lock and key since there will be children in the community.
What about Visas?
Ecuador is one of the easiest countries to get a permanent visa. Most countries require an investment of $150-300,000USD for a resident visa, Ecuador presently requires a minimum of $26,000 for a permanent investors visa. As a tourist you may visit up to 3 months, there are also sponsorship visas for 6 months. For more detailed information go to the Ecuador embassy web pages at: www.ecuador.com Immigration attorney fee for processing visa range from $2,500.00 to $3,000.00 USD.
How can we help?
You can start by answering some of the questions found in Visiting Rules for Prospective Members and email them to us at uevn_private@uevn.org and be sure to join our email lists How to subscribe/unsubscribe to the UEVN-announcement forum list.
How do we get there?
Take a flight to Quito or Guayaquil, Ecuador. We recommend Quito. From Quito you may take a plane or bus to Loja. We recommend costamar.com They are discount travel agents to Ecuador. Connecting flights from Quito to Loja (our nearest city) can be made through TAME Airlines.
By bus, there are buses leaving from the bus terminal all day; we recommend PAN AMERICANA or you can catch a FLIGHT connection from QUITO, or GUAYAQUIL (which are the international airports, whichever is better for you) to LOJA. From the LOJA airport in la TOMA (Catamayo) there are cars leaving for the LOJA BUS terminal all day. You share the ride and it is cheaper, $5-10 USD per person. $35 USD if you want to travel alone, they will take you to (TERMINAL DE BUS), bus terminal.
At the Bus terminal there are vans leaving every half hour to Vilcabamba... the cost $1 per person Just say the word Vilcabamba. The window that sells it, the company is called Vilcaturis and you buy the ticket then pay 10 cents for the terminal transboard. You go through a passage and outside are the vans, all the rest are busses; the vans go to Vilcabamba.
When you are ready to come visit us, email us for more detailed directions and travel information.
Why so many armed guards and police?
Though it may come as a surprise to you on your first visit to some countries, there are many establishments that have armed guards and police may carry large rifle type guns. This does not mean it is a high crime area whatsoever, it is just the way things are. It is hard to convince someone that has not experience this to be a fact, but it simply is the way it is, no more no less. For example, one would assume the USA is constantly at war, from the fact of so many nuclear bombs they have, but the fact remains they have only used them twice in fifty years. The same is here: many guns, but they have rarely been used.
What about the long-term political stability?
Long term would be speculation, but we can assure you that several of us did our research before choosing Ecuador to be the place for our projects. Runners up were Costa Rica, Panama, a Caribbean or Pacific Island. However, it was Ecuador, given some limitations and constraints, that was and remains our first choice. According to our knowledge, experience and logic we chose Vilcabamba as number one choice and you know what? After five years we still consider it the number choice.
With neighbors like Columbians, are there any movements seeking to overthrow the government?
Not that we are aware of, nothing unusual, nothing worse than the US or most of the world for that matter. It is democratic, elected by the people, with the US currency. As a matter of fact, that is why we chose Ecuador, where due to the culture and the way people are they have no guerilla, no communism, no drug problems, etc.
Ecuador is far from being a perfect country; it has its series of downfalls, such as bureaucracy (red tape), corruption, lack of a good infrastructure and services, etc., but we have learned how to work within this system. Put in a comparison to most all other countries we think it is a good choice.
Note: Most, if not all bad news you hear about Ecuador is local to Guayaquil and Quito. Guayaquil is in the coast, therefore epidemics, etc. and Quito is where the government is at; both are big cities with a few million people, Loja only has 150,000 people and is quite far from Guayaquil and Quito.
Any guerilla or army groups?
None whatsoever. It has not been in the history of the country and there is no reason to believe it would start now.
What about crime in general?
Crime is high in certain sections of Guayaquil and Quito, just like it is in every big city of the world, though a minute percentage in comparison to the USA. Most crimes in Loja have been committed by Peruvians and Columbians not by the Lojanos. By all means avoid some places in Guayaquil and Quito, especially at night, use common sense and intuition, especially at night you should not go alone.
Some of the reasons why crime is lower here than elsewhere are:
1) There is not enough money in the economy, nor gun shops or weapons for people to have them, so very few in this country have guns. They are simply out of the reach for most people. At a total population of 14 million, it is a small country, so the people know each other pretty well.
2) Ecuadorians honestly lack initiative in many things, including crime. You can see it in the architecture, food, culture, business life, etc. Even criminals will take the easy way 99% of the time, so just by taking some common sense precautions, you will most likely have nothing to worry about.
4) Ecuadorians are predominantly a family-oriented, peace-loving people. It is ingrained with their beliefs, religion, ancestry, etc.
5) In places where the Indigenous Natives live, they have their own very strict laws, and there is zero tolerance for crime.
What about government corruption?
I don't think there is a government on the face of the earth that does not have it's fair share of corruption. Yes there is lots of government corruption and theft of funds in Ecuador as well, but none of this we expect it will change the quality of life here much – if anything it is bound to get better. The big overall problem is that these thefts by the government officials prevent part of the fund from getting to where they are supposed to be going, for example free hospital care which the poor demand, more outside investments, repayment of the national debt, better education, better medical care, better roads, better communication infrastructure, better/wiser utilization of all the natural resources, such as oil and many minerals, etc. All this leads to the low paying wages, which is the source of all the complaints.
The fact is that Loja has improved a lot and continues to improve substantially every day. For example, though it is chlorinated water, Loja has put in more than 20 water systems for the rural areas and has plans to do approx. 20 more each year, the city of Loja has spent 30 million dollars in a new water and water disposal system in the last few years, the city of Loja has recently asphalted all the roads, a new 120 million dollar (30-50% stolen) irrigation canal is under construction for a portion of the province of Loja, and there are plans for 15-60 mega-watt wind-power park. A good government would had have this working already, none the less it is in the plans; there is a 30 mega-watt private hydroelectric in the planning stages. No matter where you go in Loja, Guayaquil, Cuenca, Quito, one can see non-stop improvement; though yes it could be many time more and better if the people in power would stop stealing and doing their work with morals and conscience.
I had heard that things are safer in Ecuador. Is that true?
Very much, but then again it is all relative. Out of everyone that has visited us, one person was robbed by force. He decided to go in the evening, alone, flashing a video camera in old downtown Quito right across the main prostitution street. He was unharmed. They just showed him a knife; he actually put up resistance but finally gave the camera away. It is and has been the only case we know of. That was in May 2003. Once in a while we do hear of some lady who a gold chain is taken from, do not go wear flashy easy to take gold chains in the market area.
We were victims of petty theft when we first got here back in 1999, since then we have not had any more problems; that’s what we have the dogs for. Given the opportunity, I believe most poor people, who are the majority, would steal small items if left unattended and that, unfortunately, is much more common than it should be, but true. Again it was the legacy left by the Spaniard conquistadores when they came to steal, rape and kill in the new continent. So we have adapted to it and have learned our lessons.
As all over the world, the countryside is different, people are different. Small villages have old traditions, it is another ball game always in the countryside.
There was a wave of incidences in this area over a couple of months in the Spring of 2010, but they have died down now, and there is word the gang leader has been arrested. As a consequence, the local community here is tighter, and with a communications network set-up, we have shown ourselves ready to come to each other's help in time of need. The connection we mantain with our community of friends we feel is the best deterent to crime, as we commit to being our brother's keeper.
What about Schools and Education?
For small children ages 3-9, there is an alternative school that provides a good education. There are a few good quality courses available in Loja for children of all ages, such as painting, dancing, ballet, music, etc. There are two main universities in Loja, UTPL and UNL and a few other smaller ones. One of the main benefits of living in community is for children to learn from the people in the community. If arranged properly it should provide an above average education for any child. There are plenty of mainstream private and public schools, comparable to most countries such as the USA, which in our opinion leave a lot to be desired and we will not send our children to them. Keep in mind that quality education has moved from the schoolroom to the Internet…
Is the community completely self-sufficient? What is "completely self-sufficient" anyway?
Isn’t it true that we’re all connected to everything in the universe? Never totally independent, right? But, we are trying to be as self-reliant as possible. If we were to grow all of our own food and make everything we needed ourselves – it would take all of our time and many more people… We feel a responsibility to be involved in things that are happening on the other side of the canal as well. Our Dome House has two fully functioning solar-electric panels and we want to install some more. We have rem pumps that we are planning to install. All of our water is heated up by solar panels as well. Our stove is propane operated and we don’t need cooling or heating in this almost perfect weather all year long.
Do you accept donations?
Yes, you may send donations to this link, under the name of Fundación Ecológica Condorhuana or via www.paypal.com to account: donations@uevn.org
How many hours are members required to work in your community?
One of the main issues that makes us quite different than most other intentional communities is how you spend your time. We have two options, one – you do the work; or two – you pay a fee. Our number one requirement is that you have most if not all your meals with us as a group. This is the only required participation that we insist upon, otherwise what is the sense of living in community if you do not share any time at all. Second we require a fair share of the labor.
There are two ways to accomplish this: One is doing the actual work yourself. The other is by paying a maintenance fee, which we have set at: $300 per person, this would allow you to sit back, relax and not work at all, get all your meals, clothe washed/iron, house clean, garden, etc. On the labor side, most intentional communities have set 36-44 hours per week, now these hours include everything, for example, taking care of children, washing the dishes, cooking, cleaning, picking food from the garden, maintenance, etc., basically you really end up working approx. 20 hours per week. Just think how much time you spend in the kitchen… cleaning… washing clothes… etc… Our goals are to operate a few profitable businesses (which we would work in) and pay maid services for all our house chores, etc.
Intentional communities are not about working 40-60 hour week in addition to ALL your personal needs, such as cooking, cleaning, maintenance, etc., Quite the opposite, is about sharing common work and reducing the number of hours you actually end up working, therefore ending up with much more free time. Keep in mind that working in the community mean benefiting from income and revenues generated by the community. We are open to discussing other proposals.
Can I own my house?
Yes, you may hold full legal title to you home and small surrounding land around it, but with a contract with the community, which only allow you to sell to another good standing full member. This contract also gives you full legal rights to the use of all common areas and other community property, also to many money saving vs. living on your own, for example, established farm, water system, electricity, road, vehicles, construction tools, carpentry tools, full kitchen.
What is the going price for land in your area?
$7,500 - $25,000 per hectare. Hectare = 2.5 acres. Near town prices are much higher; as high as $100 per square meter.
How much does it cost to build a house?
That all depends on the type of house you wish to build, from a simple wood cabin to a full luxury dome. For a wood cabin $2,500-$5,000 with no running water. $150-175 per square meter for concrete dome construction. See RealEstateLoja.com for more ideas on prices.
Are there any legal contracts I will need to sign?
Yes, see: By-Laws, Membership Agreement, Property Code and Religious Believes. All members must sign them.
How much land does the community currently own and is there any land available to purchase that borders UEVN property or is very close?
20 acres and yes there is plenty more available.
Are you a polyamory community?
Open to it and we expect all members to be tolerant to polyamory and other forms of love expression as much as we expect them to be tolerant of diverse ideology, spirituality, ages, cultures, background, etc., but no one need participate if they do not wish to in any of them.
How do you handle conflict resolution if two members don't agree on something?
Since we are small we have not had that problem yet, but we plan to follow same or similar methods used in larger communities. We usually practice open communication and transparency before things escalate into a major scale. Basically we will not tolerate two or more people being upset at each other for more than a few days without sitting down and finding a solution. The worst part about a conflict is not dealing with it immediately.
If I end up being a member there, can I bring my dog?
Anything is possible and we are flexible, BUT – we have one too many dogs already, they are Australia Cattle Dogs see UEVN.org/Ecuador/ACD. ACD’s do not get along well with other dogs. It has already been our experience that mixing breeds with ACD does not work, ACD's chase the cows and do not do harm to them, other dogs see it and try to do the same, but end up hurting the cows.
If I was a member and wanted to leave, say 2 months, how does the community handle that?
Would I be charged a fee for being absent? We have not set any fees in that case, but we expect for all members to cover their fair share, which probable will amount to not much, after all our total expenses are quite low.
Do you have horses?
We did in the past and a donkey too, they eat like 4 cows. So we had to trade them for goats and cows which eat less and contribute more.
Do you think the community would like to have horses in the future?
It is possible. But keep in mind that since Vilcabamba is a tourist town, there plenty of horses for rent.
Does Los Visionarios currently own enough land for horses to graze on?
Yes but we prefer to use it for other grazing animals that we use more since there was no one riding them often and they tend to get wild if un-ridden.
When you say that Ecuador wants me to make an investment in the country, does that mean give them the money or can I buy land or buy into UEVN and they'll consider that an investment?
Buy into something (real estate, or a business) or leave money in the bank and they hold the key to it.
We are surprised that you are only four persons and I think this should be mentioned in your web-site.
Yes, we were a much larger group initially and it has taken us several years, lots of sweat, hard work, research, experiences, travels, processes, meetings, design and careful updating for this, our project to become what it is today.
For several reasons we stayed and have kept up the dream alive, but unfortunately our remote location in a third world country has not been benign so far in opening an opportunity for an income making cottage industry for all the other members wanting to join us but who do not have enough financial resources to survive in remote southern Ecuador.
We continue to work very hard at making this dream a reality, and we believe that soon we will have enough work developed for all those who have expressed a serious interest in joining us and all the other ones who are planning to visit us in the near future.
I think that your vision should not be formulated as a vision of a community.
Well it developed and continuous to evolve from a community. We are in constant change and growth and evolution. Like the nature laws we are not immune to it and as a matter of fact it is refreshing and we look forward to growing with the universe. As a matter of fact your feedback will change us also a bit. Thank you for it.
Rather as a vision of a view persons who want to decide how an eventual future community has to look like. As far as we know we have solid fundamental principles of non violence, egalitarianism, ecology, and diversity, the rest evolves according to the group and the group changes when new people come in and others leave, etc., etc., just like in nature, organically shaping and reshaping according to need in order to survive and improve and learn from our mistakes.
Rain season – how serious it is (should I stay indoors the entire day)?
Not at all, a few years ago we had a lot of rain, but now the weather has changed and there is little rain, even when it did rain a lot, it usually was only for a few hours at a time.
Do you have there snakes, spiders, rats and etc.
We have very few snakes in this area of Ecuador, you may see one or two a year, same with spiders and rats. If you keep your home clean you should not have a problem. Do expect to run into all sorts of bugs, insects etc. from time to time. Be careful of wet areas, such as drain pipes, as we've seen scorpions in these areas as well.
Is there any Spanish language school nearby (Vilcabamba or Loja) to study there one-two months?
Yes there are. Also private teachers are available.
Do you build homes?
Yes we do. We can build your home in as little as six months.
Do you have professional architects and builders?
Yes we do. We have professional licensed architects. We can do your design using AutoCAD and email it to you. Note: We only build high quality earth-quake resistant homes.
What is the going price for land in your area?
$7,500 - $25,000 per hectare. Hectare = 2.5 acres. Near town prices are much higher; as high as $100,000 per hectare.
How much does it cost to build a house?
$200 / square meter for rustic low cost housing or apartment type. $350 / square meter for custom home. $450 square meter for luxury custom home. Note: These prices are for only the house, plan on an additional 30-50% for outside work such are electricity, water, septic system, road, garden, gates, etc. Loja does have very good architects. We can build your home to your specification in 12 months, 6 months for an additional 30%.
Will I need building permits?
Yes if building in town or in the city. No for all rural areas.
How far is Malacatos from Vilcabamba?
Malacatos is 10 minute ride by car from Vilcabamba. Offers a little better climate and it is 10 minutes less driving to Loja.
Can foreigners own property?
Yes, you do not need to be a resident to own property. All you need is your passport.
Is buying a complicated process? Roughly speaking, how does it work?
It is a simple and very secure process. In Ecuador there is a minimum two lawyer requirement by law to do any real estate transaction. One makes a written request to a notary (notaries are all lawyers) and the notary keeps a copy for life, later on it is also registered with the county public register. The lawyer will do property title search, lean search, tax searches all prior to sending it to the notary. The seller may also use an attorney. Overall the process is simply an inexpensive. Though it is not required by law, we recommend a topography drawing and pictures added to the documentation signed by the seller.
Is financing available? If so, on what terms?
For the most part financing is available at 70%. Email us for updates on this.
What sort of tax burden can new owners expect?
Taxes are very low, most rural properties only pay a few dollars a year in real estate tax.
Do you expect prices to go up or down?
We expect that prices will continue to go up since Loja has a shortage of 30,000 homes and many foreigners are moving to Loja each year. Commercial real estate investment is at its prime at this time, there is a huge demand for apartment in Loja a business offices.
See the FAQ at: RealEstateLoja.com for further details on buying, property prices, etc.
What about earthquakes?
Though we are not expecting one nor had any in the past 30 years, Loja is known to be in an earthquake zone, same as most any other place in the world, buying or building an earthquake resistant property should be a top concern for you. WARNING: There are many constructions throughout Loja that will not withstand even a small earthquake.
What "lifestyle" can I expect?
Semi-rural life with the comfort of in town restaurants, small stores, parks and occasional outdoor and indoor live entertainment. The city of Loja offers recreational parks, night-life, many outdoor events throughout the year such as indoor and outdoor fairs, indoor and outdoor concerts throughout the year, shopping for most items is available, several large food markets, two large universities, banks, even a large supermarket. Shopping here is mostly in small sidewalk stores throughout the city vs. large shopping malls. Keep in mind that with the Internet you can order most anything you want and have it here in a few days.
If you are an outdoor person and like the mountains, there is a lot to do. Horse riding is quite popular. There are plenty of parks. Peru is only 6-8 hour drive from Loja and offers many good recreational coastal beach activities at very low prices. Traveling south to Peru and Bolivia can be fun for quite a while. Cuenca is 2 hours by car from Loja. Overall there is a lot to do south and north of Loja, and east and west.
Fell free to email us specific questions.
What's the cost of living?
One of the most attractive reasons to live here is the low cost of living combined with the high quality of living in many areas such as plentiful fruits. 2-4 bedroom house or apartment rentals go for $200-500. Gasoline $1.48 Diesel $1 Propane gas refills $1.80 Electricity is high 12-16 cents / Kw. But not used much. Keep in mind that you will NOT need air-conditioning not heating, stove use propane gas, one refill last a month for a family of 4. Nice lunch in Loja $1.50 – 3.50 per person. Dinner $2.50 – 5.00 Sorry no movie theaters; for which we recommend DirecTv for $32-45 / month. CD movie purchase and rentals $1 DVD rentals $2 Internet $45 for wireless unlimited service.
What are some examples of prices for items you'd typically buy like milk and bread?
Milk 90 cents / litter. Whole-wheat bread loaf $1, 7-grain bread loaf $1.50 Most small fruits such as apples, pears, peaches, plums, kiwi, etc. are 20-25 cents each. Local grapes 35 cents / lbs. Imported grapes $1 / lbs. Watermelon $1.50-3.00 Small melons 50 cents. Huge melons $1.50. Organically grown eggs 20 cents. Rice 20 – 50 cents / lbs. Coconut $1 Banana 1-5 cents. Limes 1 cent. Lettuce 40-50 cents. Mangoes $3 / box (20 cents each). The most expensive and top choice meat maximum $2 / lbs, though do not expect the awesome flavor of grain-feed beef meat. Chicken $1 / lbs. Chicken meat is quite good. Fresh fish is available weekly at the local markets in Loja for $2.50 / lbs. Shrimps $3-5 / lbs.
What does it cost to visit a doctor -- and what's the medical care like?
Specialist $10-25 per visit. Surgeries cost up to 80% less than in most first-world countries. Dental work also cost up to 80% less. It is quite important to know how to pick a medical practitioner, because they vary from the absolute worse to some of the best. Ecuador does NOT have any control whatsoever in medical care, therefore it is buyers beware. There are many doctors that do pride themselves in the work they do and invest constantly in further education and equipment, but do NOT expect them to be 100% up to date, most doctor do NOT even know what the WWW is, in fact this is a simple test to know if they are up to date or not.
For example there are several very good plastic surgeons that we DO recommend, if you need a nose job, this is the place to get it. There are also a few very good dentists. Most drugs cost less, for example female anti-conceptive pills or shot cost $3.50 – 5.00 for a month supply. Most drugs can be bought over the counter in single units without prescription. Ecuador has drug manufacturing labs; therefore many drugs are low in price. There is medical insurance available, but they do not make a habit of paying in time and one must pay in advance to get medical attention in a hospital. We recommend that you keep some savings at hand for an emergency. The main thing to keep in mind is that improving your quality of life here should be enough to keep the doctors away.
Can we rent vehicles and equipment for roadwork, and agriculture? Yes. Several small tractors are available for $25-50 / hour. Minimum 40 hours for the larger ones. Autos are also available for rent in Loja.
Should I import my car or buy one there?
You may import one NEW vehicle duty free. For the most part we do NOT recommend the importation of a vehicle, you can buy most models here, it is better to get service and parts for a popular model vs. an imported one. We do NOT recommend Chevrolet for Loja on the other hand we DO recommend Toyota. There are many brands available, including TATA a low cost rough terrain and city 4x4 made in India. Small 4-5 passenger car cost $14-17,000 USD NOTE: Prices are expected to drop a lot in late 2005 early 2006, due to a new trade agreement. Many cars are assembled in Venezuela.
Water locations, purity, water rights?
WARNING most water systems DO have chlorine added, if this is a concern for you, be sure you ask and do tell us. There are very few properties that offer non-chlorinated water systems. The water is quite pure from contaminants at the source and known as one of the best water in the planet, but adding chlorine ruins it. You can buy drinking bottle water. For $15-25,000 you can have a well dug for you. Another option is to donate portion of the cost for a ultra-violet system for the area you want to live in; people here do understand the dangers of using chlorinated water but cannot afford the UV-system. The good news is that we have already done all that! Click here for picture of our water system
How are we going to earn money over there?
This is perhaps the most difficult thing you will have to face if you need to earn a living here. Pay rates here are quite low and there are plenty of professional available in all the fields. If you have a need to earn a living, plan on being creative, such as doing consulting work, some off-site over the internet work or own a business. Real estate investment is one way. Most professional earn $200 – 800 per month. On the other hand, your monthly expenses could be as low as $200 per person per month. Read the archive forum message for several post on how to earn a living here.
Other comments?
At the present time we are unable to provide a person to meet you at the airport.
Many visitors, including young women alone have come here by themselves. Transportation even for those who do not speak the language is not too difficult. This is a high-traffic touristy area, 60,000 tourist come by each year.
We are under construction of our main community building, at the pace we are going, with the amount of people, resources, and members we have, we expect it to be finish by 2005, expect inconveniences related to noise, workers, sleeping space available, lack of privacy, etc from M - F 7:00 am – 7:00 pm. The only accommodations we can offer you at this time depending on availability are bunk beds in a shared very modest room. We are not a hotel or motel.
Our work schedule is based on a minimum 40-hour weeks. We work twice as much most of the time. This includes most house chores such as washing clothes, dished, cooking, childcare, repairs, construction, agriculture, laundry, etc. It is also negotiable if you wish to contribute with a fee that we can negotiate depending on your needs. We are here to work less and enjoy life more, unfortunately we are in the middle of building a community and community infrastructure with limited resources; the more we advance and work and get accomplished the higher the minimum investment for full members it will be. We would like to enjoy what Ecuador has to offer more, but some one has to cook, clean, fix things and earn money to pay electricity, gas, fuel, toilet paper, soap, and things we do not make or grow here, etc. All this does not come free… you have to have the funds or work at something…
We highly suggest that you learn some Spanish before coming to visit. Do not expect all things to go smooth for you if you do not even know at least a 100 words to get you around.
If you come from an industrialized country such as the USA, Canada, England, etc. The living standard here is much lower, DO NOT EXPECT THE SAME THINGS… This is a 3rd world country and does not offer many of the comforts that you may be accustomed too, this is a land of opportunity and adventure, not of full luxury and comforts…
Below you will find a list of questions and our answer that we think will be useful to you as a comparison list when searching for an intentional community to join…
Internal Rules – What internal contract do members agree to observe?
We have four contracts that all members must sign and agree to, email us for copies of them.
Are most members satisfied with rules?
Yes we are, no rules = no order, and we do like a sense of order.
Have there been basic changes in rules since the community was established?
Yes, we are in the process of putting them all in writing for all new and present members to sign and agree to. One of our flaws has been not having contractual agreements signed by all members.
How are decisions which affect the whole community arrived at?
By consensus of all full-time active members.
Is there provision for paying back original equity to members who withdraw from community?
Yes, you may sell your share to an active member.
Financing – How was the land-holdings financed to begin with?
Personal savings.
What was the initial joining cost to each person?
Initially it was $6,500, which we have raised to $15,000 and we may lower in the future or waive it all together as our resources permit. Presently we are selling lots — prices start as little as $22,500 for more details visit EcoVenusCountryClub.com. In addition the lot cost you will need to build your own house.
What costs are borne monthly by community as a whole; taxes, loan repayments, electricity, salaries, wages, community telephone, etc.?
Presently we pay less than $1 in real estate taxes per month, we have NO loans, electricity varies from $50-200 per month depending on irrigation pumps use, we see no need to pay salaries/wages in the future, once we grow enough in numbers, though we presently do hire a few workers, telephone and Internet is our single largest expenses.
Does the community have financial resources, which allow it to meet continued costs or to undertake capital improvements?
No.
What are sources of these funds?
N/A
Are finances sufficient to finance planned capital improvements?
No.
How are required funds raised?
External work or savings. We plan to finish all infrastructures with the contribution of new members. There are several areas where members may work to raise funds, such as agriculture, carpentry, consulting and any activity that can be done over the Internet.
Food – What are the community's food requirements?
$30-50 per person / per month, in order to have a larger variety it is necessary to buy such items as, oils, nuts, grains, spices, fruits, meats, soaps, etc. and those that are not in season or that we chose not to plant/grow.
How much food is produced on community's land?
Approximately the equivalent of $80-150 per person / per month. This varies depending on how much work we put into the agriculture.
What is the co-operative exchange with neighboring communal groups or by purchase through ordinary commercial channels?
Commercial channels.
Do you aim for greater self-sufficiency in food?
YES!
Work – What enterprises are carried out by members of the community other than those designed to meet community's own needs for food, clothing, housing, furniture, etc.?
Real estate investment and consulting.
Is the enterprise designed as a separate co-operative, company or personal venture with one or more community members?
Company and personal.
What are the main sources of cash income for individual members of your community?
Savings, real-estate investments, consulting.
Is cash income supplemented by barter or by payment for labor in kind?
No.
How many members of the community are on the dole (welfare)?
None.
Philosophy/Ideology – What goals and aspirations led to the founding of the community?
The need for a community with more flexibility in all aspect related to money, non-religious, long-term self-sufficiency and sustainability.
How far does the community's present lifestyle fulfill those aspirations?
100%
Does your community have shared religious or spiritual beliefs and practices?
NO!
How would you describe the philosophy underlying the origination of the community?
To bring together a group of like open-minded individuals.
In your community what aspects of daily living are arranged on communal basis?
e.g. bathing facilities, laundry , cooking space, sleeping, etc. Bathing, laundry, cooking, eating and entertainment area are shared in common. Sleeping is in private rooms.
Is there a specific format for conflict resolution?
No, since we have not had the need yet, but we have one in mind and we will put it into practice hopefully before the need arrives.
What is the distribution of power? (governing or anarchistic)
None since we are too small. Our goal is by consensus, with the leadership of 1-3 people, rotated every 6-12 months.
Salient Characteristics of Ideology – Concern to maximize control by individuals over their own lives?
We like members to be as free as possible as long as they do not interfere with the happiness of others and the overall good of the community, like involving themselves with alcoholics, drug abusers, criminals and individuals that are not acceptable to the majority of the community members.
Anti-repressive, Dionysian impulse – We consider ourselves quite modern and open-minded. We do not seek running away from technology, what we do seek is more proper use of it vs. no use. Modern technologies are not the problem. The problems arrive on how we choose to use them.
Concern for bodily health – We are very concerned about members’ health, this is why we do not want people who are addicted to smoking, alcohol, drugs, junk food or any practice that is conductive to a poor health like a no activity sedentary lifestyle.
Environmentalist ecological outlook – We are very concerned about our environment and how to improve it. This you may see by the work we’ve been doing in our foundation. See: www.condorhuana.org
Desire to restore the sacred or mysterious or the transcendent – There is always room for improvement… Some of us do study a lot of Gnostic and Esoteric material.
Ideology - Health and body well being – Psycho-social growth and personal fulfillment?
It is quite important to us that all members make an effort to better themselves on a daily basis.
Religion, spirituality, magic?
Though we do not practice any religion, we do support those who seek spiritual and magic knowledge.
Networking?
We do seek working together as a team.
Small-scale alternative technologies ?
At the present time we only have a few electrical solar panels and water solar panels. We are open to more alternative technologies.
Practical skills in food production and housing?
There is room for improvement.
Rural intentional communities want to create alternative lifestyle ?
Yes, needless to say, we are rural and we are creating an alternative lifestyle.
Home Building – At the design stage, how does one get necessary government permit to build?
No permits whatsoever are needed.
Are locally available materials used in building?
Yes, or you can buy in the nearby town or city.
Children – Is the community open to singles or families with children?
Yes, but we will consider each case individually, presently parents must be able to provide for all the children’s needs, i.e. clothing, education, medical, etc. We prefer children above age 5. Parents must make their visitor period with their children in order to be accepted for membership.
What are the rules about new children?
We prefer no new children. There are one too many in the world already. All new pregnancies must be approved by the community. IDEALLY we do not want more than one child per adult. We expect all adults practice birth control.
If your finances (or the community’s as it grows) permit you to create a quality child, we would not oppose if you even adopt a few, but only if you have ALL the means to do it properly.
Home schooling?
We favor home schooling.
Are there alternative education schools?
Yes there is one for grades 1-6.
Universities?
There are two main universities in Loja, UTPL and UNL and a few other smaller ones.
Any other links I should read?
Yes…
Visiting Rules for Prospective Members
This website: Detailed Property Description
ECUADOR
This website: Ecuador Links
Consensus Basics
Universal Cosmic Law
Utopian EcoVillage Network Federation FAQ
This website: Articles